Monday 24 September 2012

Australian Financial Deregulation

In 1996, the banker Michael Waterhouse, with the Westpac Banking Corporation published the review: How Does Regulation Affect the Future Role and Competitiveness of Banks?  The document highlighted three primary criteria that were used to determine that deregulation had been a success.  These were:

 •  the outcome of deregulating savings and deposit rates, removing lending controls and opening the financial markets...

•  deregulation has resulted in significantly greater competition, convenience and diversity of choice for both individual and business users of financial services; and


•  the stability and integrity of the financial system has largely been maintained.



Previous posts on this blog show how all of the shareholding of Australia's major banks are dominated and controlled by exactly the same shareholders which questions any statement about real competition.    Comments about the integrity of the financial system were premature.  What's often forgotten is that regulations that controlled the lending of money had been in place to stop a re-run of the great depression.



Removing lending controls...

Michael Waterhouse discussed the benefit of "removing lending controls" in providing easier access to cheap loans.  The document goes further by stating that under previous regulations, "lower income earners were often excluded from borrowing from banks".  

Apparently, "with the removal of lending controls, banks were in a position to meet a greater share of the borrowing needs of ordinary Australians".  A lot has changed since 1996.

Australian Mortgage Lending

The removal of regulations in regard to lending can be seen with the graph of Australian debt below.  

Personal Debt levels have doubled over the past decade.
Government Debt rapidly increased after the Global Financial Crisis with the stimulus packages.
Housing Debt accounts for the vast majority of debt created since lending controls were removed





Housing related debt growth is not due to an increase in the number of loans because of population pressure in Australia.

The Popping Bubble Blogspot uses data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics to try and plot the relationship between the supply and demand for housing in Australia.  Measuring "demand" is difficult to do but the figures do show that the housing debt boom is clearly not driven by population pressure on the number of dwellings.  


These observations correlate with observations made by the Reserve Bank in 2008 as to the relationship of traditional forces upon house prices.  The graph below is taken from Anthony Richard's Reserve Bank presentation which shows the initial spike in house prices starting with the 1988 reintroduction of Australia's First Home Owner's Assistance scheme.  Instead of assisting with the affordability of housing, the grant has done the opposite as house prices have risen to meet available reserves.



Bob Hawke's home-owner's grant was abolished in 1990 which was followed by a noticeable drop in house prices and stagnation in property value increases for almost a decade. An updated scheme was introduced by John Howard in 2000 and (not shown) was increases by Kevin Rudd in 2008.  Quite clearly, the availability of "easy" money has been a deciding factor in the cost of housing.  

In a "chicken & egg" situation of money availability driving up the costs of housing & then justifying larger loans due to demonstrated value of the asset being purchased - banks have been willing to approve ever greater loans with longer repayment periods.  At the time of the 2008 crash is was quite easy to obtain 105% mortgages where no deposit at all was required for purchasing a house. 


The graph below shows after tax profits (in millions of Australian dollars) attributed to shareholders of the big four banks

What's not surprising is that the explosion in housing debt shows a greater relation to the bank profits posted for shareholders.  We can clearly see that deregulation and ballooning debt crisis has occurred while benefiting the shareholders of Australia's banks. 


Saturday 22 September 2012

Banking Collusion


Market Manipulation

Previous posts show the level of control held over the entire Australian sharemarket by financial giants.  Major Holdings shows that that a very small group of players have the power to completely control the market if they were to collude. The latest scandals from the Northern Hemisphere that show traders from different organisations have commonly been acting together to manipulate a number of markets in their own interests.

 Libor Market Manipulation & Interest Rates

The latest scandal to rock Banking and Finance is in regard to Barclay’s traders $453 million fine for collusion with traders from other banks in manipulating the London Interbank Lending Rate (LIBOR) to maximise profits.  The (now famous) “Done … for you big boy” response is typical of the 257 known requests from Traders in deliberately fixing rates in the interests of the banks.  These artificially derived rates were used by Barclays (and it appears others) in justifying the interest rates it passed on to mortgage holders from 2005 – 2009.  Citigroup, HSBC, JP Morgan, Lloyds, Deutsche Bank and Royal Bank of Scotland are now also under investigation for their part in the same scandal. 

 Barclays Chief Executive, Bob Diamond is reported to be the highest paid chief executive in Britain with a take home salary of £20.97 million.  The widespread manipulation and known illegality either occurred with his knowledge or without.   If he was aware, his astronomical salary has come as a result of quiet approval to scandalous activity.  If he didn’t know what was going on in the bank, one may question why he would be paid so much in the first place.    

Barclays has been the most visible player in this controversy although the Huffington Post has written more into how the unfolding saga is showing Citigroup to be the largest of all offenders.  

The Libor scandal has had a direct impact on every person who has been subject to interest rates set by the major banks as the retail lending rate has been determined in response to the supposed cost of borrowing by the banks themselves.    According to a confidential report leaked from International Organization of Securities Commission, fewer than half of the benchmark interest rates (Europe, America and Asia) are calculated by methodologies that were unclear, not transparent and only rarely subject to specific regulatory standards.  In essence, a large component of the financial industry isn't based on anything tangible at all!


Municipal Derivatives Manipulation




The Libor scandal is only one in a long line of allegations of collusion and market manipulation against major investment banks.  On June 5th, JP Morgan agreed paid $44.6 million to resolve allegations that it had conspired to fix Municipal derivatives.  This followed a $211 million settlement with the US Government from the previous year as part of a probe that also snared Bank of America $137 million and UBS $160 million for deliberate overcharging. 

Gold and Silver Price Manipulation

The latest revelations as to collusion amongst the financial giants come amidst an on-going but reluctant investigation by the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission as to strong evidence that JP Morgan and HSBC traders had worked to manipulate the price of silver.  In October 2010, CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton stated there have been “fraudulent efforts to persuade and deviously control” silver prices and that violators should be prosecuted.  Essentially, HSBC and JP Morgan used their collective dominance to flood the market so profits could be made from short term price fluctuation.

In 2010, London based Trader Andrew Maguire became a whistle-blower to the CFTC in providing real-time & advanced notification of silver and gold price manipulations allegedly occurring as a result of collusion between traders from JP Morgan and HSBC.  The email trail is here.  Ted Butler has done a great piece related to the silver market manipulation on his blog:
http://crocodileslament.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/us-government-and-jp-morgan-collude-to.html


In July 2012, the Telegraph published an article titled "The price of gold has been manipulated.  This is more scandalous than Libor".  This highlighted that the behavior of Gold prices is not what would be expected in a text-book market environment.

Energy Market Manipulation

 The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) has filed charges against JP Morgan Chase for manipulating California's energy market.  The Financial Times writes:

The electricity investigation involves whether JP Morgan's bidding strategies extracted "inflated" or "excessive" payments from two wholesale power markets serving California and several Midwest states. The bank's commodities business owns or has rights to output from several electric generators.

 This follows a preliminary finding against Deutsche Bank AG for the same manipulation.

Conclusion

Every major market shows signs or evidence of manipulation by large institutions when opportunities for financial gain present themselves.  The ongoing Libor scandal has clearly demonstrated that the small group of decision makers within all of the powerful financial firms know each other and were prepared to cooperate with each other if collective financial rewards could be gained.

The concept of market rates being determined by relationships of supply and demand is a simplistic fiction that doesn't relate to the reality of the modern world.  











Thursday 21 June 2012

ASX200 & Market Domination

continuing from http://citizenloz.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/australasian-banking-four-banks.html


Sharemarket Basics

The “Australian Securities Exchange” or ASX lists the top trading firms in Australia.  

The index is essentially an assessment of how much combined wealth exists in the top 200 firms and this is combined with the list of available shares for each firm to come up with measurement to represent the market.  The main index used in Australia is Standard and Poor's ASX200.


Note: The estimate of how much a firm is worth in total is referred to as Market Capitalisation and is always abbreviated to "Market Cap".


Australian Market Domination

In the previous document, three banks were shown to hold control over a considerable number of large Australian corporations.


Name of Shareholder

HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia)

J P Morgan Nominees (Australia)

National Nominees *

Citicorp Nominees Pty

·         National Nominees Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of National Australia Bank.  NAB itself has J.P. Morgan, Citigroup and HSBC as its primary shareholders.


The table below lists the entire ASX200

Corporate boards are elected annually.  Holders of 30% or more of company shares are normally able to determine who the board members for each firm will be.  The table below shows (in gold) the corporations that the bank nominees hold more than 30% control.

Be careful to observe that banking nominees may control shareholding but are not the benefactors (or ultimate owners).  The list below is an indication of centralised power, not ownership. 

Market Cap ($M)
Company name
Bank Holding %
Bank Holding ($m)
826
ABACUS PROPERTY GROUP
26.0%
 $                 215
734
ACRUX LIMITED
35.2%
 $                 258
1,906
ADELAIDE BRIGHTON LIMITED
41.4%
 $                 790
7,596
AGL ENERGY LIMITED
38.1%
 $             2,893
603
ALACER GOLD CORP.
0.0%
 $                      -
2,269
ALUMINA LIMITED
74.1%
 $             1,682
9,123
AMCOR LIMITED
64.1%
 $             5,844
11,059
AMP LIMITED
49.5%
 $             5,471
1,774
ANSELL LIMITED
63.2%
 $             1,121
3,326
APA GROUP
15.9%
 $                 527
474
APN NEWS & MEDIA LIMITED
44.6%
 $                 211
461
AQUARIUS PLATINUM LIMITED
28.2%
 $                 130
1,244
AQUILA RESOURCES LIMITED
25.9%
 $                 322
424
ARDENT LEISURE GROUP
49.8%
 $                 211
1,629
ARISTOCRAT LEISURE LIMITED
59.5%
 $                 969
4,253
ASCIANO LIMITED
76.1%
 $             3,237
5,160
ASX LIMITED
48.0%
 $             2,475
1,845
ATLAS IRON LIMITED
48.8%
 $                 900
1,354
AURORA OIL & GAS LIMITED
39.3%
 $                 532
989
AUSDRILL LIMITED
43.8%
 $                 434
1,454
AUSTRALAND PROPERTY GROUP
25.8%
 $                 375
57,801
AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND BANKING GROUP LIMITED
50.1%
 $           28,970
1,459
AUSTRALIAN INFRASTRUCTURE FUND
38.5%
 $                 562
798
AWE LIMITED
43.8%
 $                 350
2,060
BANK OF QUEENSLAND LIMITED
40.3%
 $                 830
299
BATHURST RESOURCES LIMITED
15.8%
 $                   47
1,312
BEACH ENERGY LIMITED
53.3%
 $                 699
451
BEADELL RESOURCES LIMITED
58.9%
 $                 266
2,852
BENDIGO AND ADELAIDE BANK LIMITED
33.4%
 $                 953
102,517
BHP BILLITON LIMITED
52.1%
 $           53,452
487
BILLABONG INTERNATIONAL LIMITED
61.9%
 $                 302
938
BLUESCOPE STEEL LIMITED
52.6%
 $                 494
1,402
BOART LONGYEAR LIMITED
70.5%
 $                 988
2,526
BORAL LIMITED.
57.6%
 $             1,455
953
BRADKEN LIMITED
55.2%
 $                 526
9,241
BRAMBLES LIMITED
76.7%
 $             7,087
993
BWP TRUST
30.4%
 $                 302
632
CABCHARGE AUSTRALIA LIMITED
33.9%
 $                 214
3,713
CALTEX AUSTRALIA LIMITED
32.2%
 $             1,197
3,557
CAMPBELL BROTHERS LIMITED
29.3%
 $             1,042
1,367
CARSALES.COM LIMITED
56.6%
 $                 774
2,675
CENTRO RETAIL AUSTRALIA
39.4%
 $             1,054
5,372
CFS RETAIL PROPERTY TRUST GROUP
58.0%
 $             3,117
1,694
CHALLENGER LIMITED
59.4%
 $             1,006
665
CHARTER HALL GROUP
63.2%
 $                 420
1,025
CHARTER HALL RETAIL REIT
58.5%
 $                 599
590
COALSPUR MINES LIMITED
32.9%
 $                 194
10,087
COCA-COLA AMATIL LIMITED
46.6%
 $             4,703
3,649
COCHLEAR LIMITED
63.9%
 $             2,330
80,595
COMMONWEALTH BANK OF AUSTRALIA.
36.3%
 $           29,232
2,324
COMMONWEALTH PROPERTY OFFICE FUND
58.2%
 $             1,353
4,345
COMPUTERSHARE LIMITED.
44.9%
 $             1,949
6,184
CROWN LIMITED
34.5%
 $             2,130
20,287
CSL LIMITED
57.3%
 $           11,617
767
CSR LIMITED
49.5%
 $                 380
583
CUDECO LIMITED
37.4%
 $                 218
146
DART ENERGY LIMITED
30.7%
 $                   45
1,184
DAVID JONES LIMITED
37.7%
 $                 446
438
DECMIL GROUP LIMITED
44.9%
 $                 197
4,452
DEXUS PROPERTY GROUP
81.2%
 $             3,614
604
DISCOVERY METALS LIMITED
43.3%
 $                 261
1,343
DOWNER EDI LIMITED
73.2%
 $                 984
2,192
DUET GROUP
47.3%
 $             1,038
1,080
DULUXGROUP LIMITED
57.6%
 $                 622
3,089
ECHO ENTERTAINMENT GROUP LIMITED
56.0%
 $             1,728
587
EMECO HOLDINGS LIMITED
69.3%
 $                 407
624
ENERGY RESOURCES OF AUSTRALIA LIMITED
14.0%
 $                   88
598
ENERGY WORLD CORPORATION LTD
59.6%
 $                 356
1,266
ENVESTRA LIMITED
9.5%
 $                 121
1,174
EVOLUTION MINING LIMITED
46.9%
 $                 551
1,435
FAIRFAX MEDIA LIMITED
60.9%
 $                 874
581
FKP PROPERTY GROUP
49.5%
 $                 288
701
FLEETWOOD CORPORATION LIMITED
26.3%
 $                 184
3,278
FLETCHER BUILDING LIMITED
49.1%
 $             1,610
1,873
FLIGHT CENTRE LIMITED
0.0%
 $                      -
14,573
FORTESCUE METALS GROUP LTD
29.5%
 $             4,296
596
G.U.D. HOLDINGS LIMITED
28.1%
 $                 167
511
GINDALBIE METALS LTD
26.5%
 $                 136
1,461
GLOUCESTER COAL LTD
29.4%
 $                 429
1,115
GOODMAN FIELDER LIMITED.
76.0%
 $                 847
5,176
GOODMAN GROUP
81.6%
 $             4,225
5,721
GPT GROUP
85.5%
 $             4,890
1,870
GRAINCORP LIMITED
60.2%
 $             1,125
249
GRYPHON MINERALS LIMITED
58.7%
 $                 146
601
GWA GROUP LIMITED.
24.1%
 $                 145
2,024
HARVEY NORMAN HOLDINGS LIMITED
28.0%
 $                 566
1,261
HASTINGS DIVERSIFIED UTILITIES FUND
25.6%
 $                 323
1,035
HENDERSON GROUP PLC.
44.6%
 $                 462
4,987
ILUKA RESOURCES LIMITED
80.3%
 $             4,003
389
IMDEX LIMITED
53.5%
 $                 208
848
INDEPENDENCE GROUP NL
60.8%
 $                 516
467
INDUSTREA LIMITED
43.4%
 $                 203
6,861
INSURANCE AUSTRALIA GROUP LIMITED
47.5%
 $             3,262
347
INTEGRA MINING LIMITED
41.3%
 $                 143
287
INTREPID MINES LIMITED
44.9%
 $                 129
1,640
INVESTA OFFICE FUND
71.1%
 $             1,166
893
INVOCARE LIMITED
32.1%
 $                 287
1,314
IOOF HOLDINGS LIMITED
33.2%
 $                 436
4,398
IPERNICA LIMITED
8.4%
 $                 371
800
IRESS LIMITED
51.0%
 $                 408
3,384
JAMES HARDIE INDUSTRIES SE
81.2%
 $             2,749
862
JB HI-FI LIMITED
37.4%
 $                 322
926
KAROON GAS AUSTRALIA LIMITED
43.4%
 $                 402
856
KINGSGATE CONSOLIDATED LIMITED.
58.6%
 $                 502
5,690
LEIGHTON HOLDINGS LIMITED
21.4%
 $             1,216
4,050
LEND LEASE GROUP
62.6%
 $             2,535
376
LINC ENERGY LTD
26.9%
 $                 101
1,629
LYNAS CORPORATION LIMITED
66.9%
 $             1,089
439
MACMAHON HOLDINGS LIMITED
39.8%
 $                 175
669
MACQUARIE ATLAS ROADS GROUP
84.9%
 $                 568
8,995
MACQUARIE GROUP LIMITED
53.2%
 $             4,787
994
MEDUSA MINING LIMITED
48.0%
 $                 477
595
MERMAID MARINE AUSTRALIA LIMITED
48.9%
 $                 291
1,750
MESOBLAST LIMITED
34.7%
 $                 607
3,139
METCASH LIMITED
59.4%
 $             1,864
419
MINERAL DEPOSITS LIMITED
76.3%
 $                 319
1,719
MINERAL RESOURCES LIMITED
30.4%
 $                 522
267
MIRABELA NICKEL LIMITED
42.7%
 $                 114
4,222
MIRVAC GROUP
76.7%
 $             3,236
1,893
MONADELPHOUS GROUP LIMITED
36.1%
 $                 683
917
MOUNT GIBSON IRON LIMITED
34.1%
 $                 313
1,059
MYER HOLDINGS LIMITED
57.2%
 $                 606
49,613
NATIONAL AUSTRALIA BANK LIMITED
48.2%
 $           23,924
1,539
NAVITAS LIMITED
32.3%
 $                 497
18,850
NEWCREST MINING LIMITED
86.2%
 $           16,252
15,891
NEWS CORPORATION
0.4%
 $                   65
809
NRW HOLDINGS LIMITED
64.1%
 $                 518
1,256
NUFARM LIMITED
41.0%
 $                 515
544
OCEANAGOLD CORPORATION
27.3%
 $                 148
9,013
OIL SEARCH LIMITED
69.4%
 $             6,251
1,225
ONESTEEL LIMITED
55.9%
 $                 684
8,804
ORICA LIMITED
58.8%
 $             5,177
14,055
ORIGIN ENERGY LIMITED
47.1%
 $             6,620
2,551
OZ MINERALS LIMITED
65.7%
 $             1,675
498
PACIFIC BRANDS LIMITED
66.4%
 $                 330
994
PALADIN ENERGY LTD
43.7%
 $                 434
1,626
PANAUST LIMITED
25.4%
 $                 413
150
PANORAMIC RESOURCES LIMITED
64.1%
 $                   96
908
PERPETUAL LIMITED
15.2%
 $                 138
1,282
PERSEUS MINING LIMITED
45.8%
 $                 587
2,167
PLATINUM ASSET MANAGEMENT LIMITED
11.6%
 $                 252
1,415
PREMIUM INVESTORS LIMITED
3.7%
 $                   53
2,492
QANTAS AIRWAYS LIMITED
71.1%
 $             1,771
14,653
QBE INSURANCE GROUP LIMITED
66.1%
 $             9,687
8,198
QR NATIONAL LIMITED
50.4%
 $             4,128
1,382
QUBE LOGISTICS HOLDINGS LIMITED
26.6%
 $                 368
188
RAMELIUS RESOURCES LIMITED
44.8%
 $                   84
4,535
RAMSAY HEALTH CARE LIMITED
31.7%
 $             1,438
1,871
REGIS RESOURCES LIMITED
31.7%
 $                 593
5,027
RESMED INC
58.6%
 $             2,947
942
RESOLUTE MINING LIMITED
75.6%
 $                 712
23,792
RIO TINTO LIMITED
54.4%
 $           12,948
1,046
SANDFIRE RESOURCES NL
22.7%
 $                 237
11,176
SANTOS LIMITED
54.7%
 $             6,111
342
SARACEN MINERAL HOLDINGS LIMITED
53.6%
 $                 183
2,191
SEEK LIMITED
55.3%
 $             1,211
796
SENEX ENERGY LIMITED
3.9%
 $                   31
2,441
SEVEN GROUP HOLDINGS LIMITED
21.0%
 $                 512
1,465
SEVEN WEST MEDIA LIMITED
27.7%
 $                 407
675
SIGMA PHARMACEUTICALS LIMITED
59.0%
 $                 399
621
SILVER LAKE RESOURCES LIMITED
41.7%
 $                 259
2,043
SIMS METAL MANAGEMENT LIMITED
56.1%
 $             1,146
399
SINGAPORE TELECOMMUNICATIONS LIMITED.
12.3%
 $                   49
342
SMS MANAGEMENT & TECHNOLOGY LIMITED.
54.2%
 $                 185
4,868
SONIC HEALTHCARE LIMITED
60.1%
 $             2,926
831
SOUTHERN CROSS MEDIA GROUP LIMITED
69.9%
 $                 581
3,374
SP AUSNET
27.2%
 $                 919
2,003
SPARK INFRASTRUCTURE GROUP
43.2%
 $                 866
654
SPOTLESS GROUP LIMITED
67.4%
 $                 440
690
ST BARBARA LIMITED
79.8%
 $                 551
7,115
STOCKLAND
76.6%
 $             5,447
10,048
SUNCORP GROUP LIMITED
61.9%
 $             6,215
997
SUNDANCE RESOURCES LIMITED
41.0%
 $                 409
1,381
SUPER RETAIL GROUP LIMITED
33.3%
 $                 460
5,398
SYDNEY AIRPORT
59.2%
 $             3,195
2,154
TABCORP HOLDINGS LIMITED
56.7%
 $             1,222
3,666
TATTS GROUP LIMITED
36.2%
 $             1,326
3,421
TELECOM CORPORATION OF NEW ZEALAND LIMITED
72.5%
 $             2,479
44,919
TELSTRA CORPORATION LIMITED.
47.8%
 $           21,485
533
TEN NETWORK HOLDINGS LIMITED
25.6%
 $                 136
249
THE REJECT SHOP LIMITED
36.3%
 $                   90
3,098
TOLL HOLDINGS LIMITED
45.7%
 $             1,415
1,361
TPG TELECOM LIMITED
15.9%
 $                 216
971
TRANSFIELD SERVICES LIMITED
55.1%
 $                 535
1,215
TRANSPACIFIC INDUSTRIES GROUP LTD
32.2%
 $                 391
8,298
TRANSURBAN GROUP
72.2%
 $             5,988
2,809
TREASURY WINE ESTATES LIMITED
70.1%
 $             1,969
364
TROY RESOURCES LIMITED
42.3%
 $                 154
2,019
UGL LIMITED
33.2%
 $                 670
851
VIRGIN AUSTRALIA HOLDINGS LIMITED
19.2%
 $                 163
29,148
WESFARMERS LIMITED
41.7%
 $           12,158
787
WESTERN AREAS NL
0.0%
 $                      -
21,096
WESTFIELD GROUP
73.2%
 $           15,447
8,429
WESTFIELD RETAIL TRUST
74.1%
 $             6,243
62,600
WESTPAC BANKING CORPORATION
42.6%
 $           26,680
4,235
WHITEHAVEN COAL LIMITED
35.1%
 $             1,488
26,456
WOODSIDE PETROLEUM LIMITED
41.8%
 $           11,053
32,636
WOOLWORTHS LIMITED
40.1%
 $           13,084
6,175
WORLEYPARSONS LIMITED
50.8%
 $             3,139
881
WOTIF.COM HOLDINGS LIMITED
26.1%
 $                 230
 $    1,051,159
 $         514,996


J P Morgan, Citigroup and HSBC are collectively able to approve or reject every major board member & chairman in Australia.  Along with the subsidiary National Nominees, these banks control 49% of all shares and capital in the market - this represents $514 billion of wealth.

As a reference - the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority stated in 2011 that the superannuation investment level for Australia stood at only $95.2 billion.


Special Points of Interest


  • The ASX200 crash of 2008 represented only an 8.4% loss of value from the market.  Banking nominees are powerful enough to manipulate the market (or the government reaction to a jittery market) at will.
  •  Banks aren't investing in particular players or industries, they are saturating all large firms with bank controlled ownership.  Financial interests are held in all competitors it suggests that investors would be opposed to price wars or cut-throat competition that would hurt the profits of "competing" firms.  

Australian consumers have long been sceptical about the idea of competition amongst the banks or supermarkets or energy companies as if large firms were acting together to maximise profits at the expense of consumers.

Ownership of all major competitors suggests that monopolies exist that are capable of acting against the interests of their customers, companies or national interest if the incentive of reward is great enough.